(no subject)

[twincityhacker]

The more and more I learn about sociolinguistics and historical linguistics, the more and more I am convinced that there is no fucking way that Modern English would still be spoken in the 51st century. Especially when you're looking at reams and reams of data on how the speech of a city can change over fifty years.

At the very least, it would sound as different as Middle English sounds to us. I don't think it would quite reach the Proto-Indo-European level of different because witting would act as some sort of a drag, but who knows?

P.S. My Futuristic/Alien Language now has a typological system AND an orthography! I choice VSO, because it's not the most common ( SOV ) or the one English has ( SVO ). VSO word order is, coincidently, is shared by Welsh, Arabic, and Hawaiian. It shows up in around 20% of the worlds languages. And I chose a syllabray, as apparently alphabets have only been invented independently a handful of times.

Comments

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

I always just assume the TARDIS is translating the 51st century English into "our" English for the companions' convenience (and when, for instance, Rose first met Jack, he'd obviously have to have enough fluency in 20th century English to pass as a native anyway). Because otherwise, yeah, just thinking about what it sounded like in Chaucer's time versus now? It'd be unintelligible to you or me.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

It's less Doctor Who, more Torchwood and general science fiction speculation. Because while there were lots of other things were science just doesn't work that way, it really irritated the hell out of me that when suddenly confronted with a vision of your very long dead father you'd use your non-native tongue to address him. And, well, just about every other linguistic situation up to and including why they don't have Welsh subtitles on the Torchwood DVDs.

[aeshna_uk]

I tend to assume that any translation there is done for the sake of the viewer - though personally I'd much prefer to have subtitles for scenes where Jack would logically be using another tongue. And, when it comes down to it, I guess he's been in the here and now for some 140 years and Time Agents are probably trained to learn and use languages far faster than the norm.... Watch me explain things away for my own sanity! :) Really, though, it seems to be a standard SF TV shortcut and it irritates me more on other shows - I remember being rather bemused by SG1 where having a linguist along seemed to help with translating writing but little more as everybody spoke English anyway even when they wrote Egyptian....

Definitely agree that the 51st Century wouldn't have any languages readily recognisable to 21st Century ears - I remember having this conversation with someone (I think it was my beta) who strongly disagreed, but languages do evolve and 3000 years is a long time. Oddly enough, my second-ever story in this fandom (waaaay back before the show even started) was based around Jack's not having anyone to speak to in his mother tongue. :)

(As for why there's no Welsh subtitles on Torchwood DVDs - while some 20% of the population of Wales can speak/understand Welsh, pretty much 100% of them can speak and understand English, which makes it rather redundant to include as a subtitle language! Despite the road signs, English is the majority language there.)

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

Just because it's a standard doesn't mean I have to like it! = ) I haven't been watching much other semi-reasonable sci-fi shows recently, so I have little to complain about.

The Welsh subtitles is entirely me sulking about what got me excited about the Welsh language doesn't actually help me study Welsh the situation of Welsh.

[aeshna_uk]

Sadly, these shows are made for a general BBC audience, so while there are frequent uber-geek undertones (they have a drug called Retcon, for heaven's sake!) they try to keep the more fiddly aspects out. And subtitles, alas, can be off-putting for some....

Hey, Welsh is doing okay - look at Cornish! At least Welsh still counts as a living language. Plus, can you imagine just how long some of those subtitles would be? They'd fill the screen! ;)

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I was thinking a Welsh subtited option for the DVDS, or for the channel for Welsh language programming.

What counts as a living language and what does not is confusing sometimes. Manx is considered extinct, in both lingustic textbooks and popular science, even though there are parents teaching Manx to their children as a first language.

I imagine that the subtitles would be no longer than German ones. = P

a bit random and asleep

[beccaelizabeth]

if writing be an influence, how much more all this sound recording we gots now? people still watching films from when sound was first recorded, listening music, all sorts. any data say about that?

reckon it would get real different though, have been reading all this chaucer and shakespeare and all, be many words being used in many different ways. Some would depend on changed tech, social/economic structures, etcetc.

have noticed this weekend people use 'mental' to mean mad. They do not use it to mean to do with the mind. this happen often to words meant to be technical about mental illness, mental disability, physical disability etc. often and fast, since I've noticed it in my lifetime.

Re: a bit random and asleep

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

The study I vaguely referenced above is a study done in Philadelphia from about the 1950's onward. So sound recordings could make it so a person could understand both the standard and their dialect, but mostly make use of their dialect when conversing with others.

Which makes sense because your language is affected by the people you hang out with and not ( usually ) what television programing you watch. Example: British speech has crept into my writing not because I down a frighting amount of Wodehouse, but because a large majority of the people I interact with online are British.