twincityhacker | Bayseian Fandom

Cannon Statement:
Jack is a Fact of the universe.

Theory:
Jack's probability of existence is 1. This only becomes interesting when you realize that everyone else's probability of existence is lower. ( Ex. Toshiko Sato has a probability of 63% )

Not only can people be erased from existence with a paradox, there is - or now there is, since the fabric of time has grown more unstable since the Fall of the Time Lords and their obsessive matenence of a strict version of events - a small flickering in and out of existence based on events that happen do to even minor time travel interference in the time stream.

Examples in Cannon:
Timey-Wimy Sally Sparrow. Harriet Jones' political career. Tim Latimer missing that bomb, and resulting family because he lived. The Great and Bountiful Fourth Human Empire, though I'm not sure this one is a casualty of the Time War or not.

Conclusion:
So even if you made a Paradox Machine and killed Jack Harkness before he became Jack Harkness, he still would exist. ~~And then he would probably kill you twice - before and after he destroyed the Paradox Machine.~~

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My theory is that Jack's just. like. gallifrey. A fixed point in space and time - a fact, immutable and unchangeable. And that ripping him out of both would probably do bad fucking damage to the universe, but could happen.

...That said, I like your theory too.

I keep banging against what a fixed point means. I was flipping though wikipedia, and saw probabity...

I do see a Jack/Galifrey thing. They're both fixed points, but they still move, since they do travel though linerar time, and even age glacially slow.

Plus, it strikes the differences too. The Time Lords refused to change: they stopped even acknowledging they had a history ( or so the incredibly thick "Rassion, Omega, and the Other Guy" implies ) and Jack continues to change and evolve.

Yeah, but the time lords also refused to deal with the outside universe for fear of fucking it up. The planet itself did change - if only in that it died. Though no, really NOT the same thing. Would be interesting to know if Gallifrey had weather and storms and earth quakes and the like.

I actually like your theory better. Mine just makes Ten a little more interesting when I choose tow ant to prod him that way *G*

...Oh *face palm*. I was talking about the fact that Gailifrey didn't have earthquakes, and only young upstart planets like the Earth did, but now I remember it was fic not cannon or even agreed fannon.

But, one could reason that a time traveling civilization could have learned to tinker with their planet's weather and geology to relive the stresses that changes 'bad weather' to 'catastrophic weather' so they wouldn't have hurricanes, tornadoes, and major earthquakes - but still have storms, and low level earthquakes.

*laughs* That it does.

HA! I was confused, briefly. Not your fault, I just haven't (clearly) read the fic. I really do need to read more than I do in fandom. Unfortunately, I'm very weird about how long I can stay put at the computer and that really makes reading a pain in the ass. The laptop makes writing easier - *Babbles at you*

Back on topic: there's the whole domed thing - why is their city domed, anyway? Either the weather outside is severe or there's just the desire to control what's inside or the whole Time Lord citadel and the Others outside. *ponders, a lot*

And I could have been clearer too, and referring to random fics found on the Teaspoon doesn't help matters at all - though I can not for the life of me remember the story except for that one line about Gailfrey and earthquakes!

I always associate Time Lords with control, so it could be the weather and controling the people inside, monitoring who comes into the city and keeping everyone else outside, all at the same time.

And, because the wall looks Impressive.

My theory is that Jack's just. like. gallifrey.

Hmm, I don't think he's on quite the same level as Gallifrey - Gallifrey was ultimately created (in the sense of being outside of time) by the Time Lords and destroyed by a Time Lord. I don't think Jack can be destroyed or changed by anyone (or else the Master would have as I don't doubt he has that same knee-jerk instinctive reaction to him as the Doctor does; even if he didn't kill him, he would have made sure to leave physical scars). And that makes him something new and scary and potentially very powerful.

I don't think he's *exactly* like Gallifrey - it's just a fun pet theory that I like to play with - but I really don't think he has endless power, either - A lot of 'life' and 'energy', but the only 'power' he seems to have is raw stuff and the inability to die and healing. Though I could be reading you wrong there.

And we've got some evidence that he's changing. I mean 1-) he keeps marks until he's dead or some time after injury (Cyberwoman and that bruise), 2-) he's aging, 3-) ultimately he turns into the freaking face of BOE. Even if you ignore that last thing - he's changing in some ways, and as for destroyed. Dunno. I'd be surprised if he was completely incapable of being destroyed. I don't think the Master or Doctor knows how, but I'm guessing there's a way.

The sense I get is not so much that it's a "power" he has but that he simply is: he's a universal constant, like gravity. He can't be destroyed, he can't be changed, he's fixed in space and time. The universe is stuck with him (and pretty much literally revolves around him)!

As I mentioned in another comment here, I'm not completely sold on the aging thing and the healing aspect outside of death seems to be human but accelerated-according-to-plot-requirements - a combination of Rose playing god without the manual and the likelihood of the writers not actually having decided on what Jack's deal was until Utopia was written. ;) Hopefully there'll be more consistency from here on out now they've worked out what's up with him. :)

(for the record: not going with the FoB thing because a) it's presented as a throwaway joke, b) it completely contradicts that beautifully structured scene in the radiation room as well as all canon concerning both characters up to that point, and c) I had a close relative die bedridden and physically dependent and I can remember how miserable and humiliating they found the latter aspect, so it's not a fate I'd wish on a character I claim to like, for the 5 billion years or so that the FoB was around!)

Hey, I've not given up on Harriet yet - there does seem to be a job opening for "Prime Minister who doesn't take any alien shit" going at the moment, after all. Besides, since when was disposing of slave traders ever considered a bad thing? ;)

But then I think that DW has always been amazingly inconsistent in its treatment of time travel and probabilities of existence! The Doctor fiddles with things - or doesn't - as he sees fit, and just uses whichever excuse he most fancies this week. Has to be a bit more careful now, though, as we've seen that without the clean-up squad vailable, Reapers do sometimes happen....

Hmm, wonder how Reapers would react to Jack? They'd probably be scared of him in the same way as the TARDIS and the Doctor. :)

Jack as Fixed Point absolutely fascinates me as a writer of fanfic - there's so much you can do with that. The whole idea of him as Fact, eternal and immutable (I'm not entirely convinced on the aging thing - knowing Jack he's probably been plucking those same few grey hairs since before he ever met Rose and is occasionally susprised to notice them again as they pop back along with everything else!), as basically something on a par with the laws of physics, is intriguing. He's been written into the universe as a permanent feature - but what does that actually mean? He has a unique relationship with space-time - is he simply going to live forever or are there aspects that he has yet to work out? Can he move freely through time and space without technical aid if he puts his mind to it? He knows what he is now, which must be very freeing, but how can he make use of that? I guess there's no great hurry for him to work out what, if anything, and how....

My, that was all remarkably waffly. :)

I hope Ms. Jones does come back - she seemed like she was doing a great job before circumstances intervened.

I'm trying to work though what does a fixed point in space-time means, but it's slow going. Mostly because I keep getting hung up trying to define the basic physics of the Whoverse. I've gotten as far as the fourth and fifth dimensions, but keep wandering off to fiddle with other things that's related to it. Like why the TARDIS materializing, the Untempered Schism, and Jack healing Carys all have the same(ish) sound effect, and whether it's intentional or not. But it's fun.

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